Hello [sir],

How many people have to say something is true to make it true even when the Bible says otherwise?  Would you go with what 90% believe even if it contradicts scripture?  That is what you need to ask yourself, brother.  I say this with love, but we will all stand before the throne and answer the Lord if we taught converts toward our unbiblical dogmas simply because they were popular, without the ability to call upon the masses and the crowds to share the guilt of our leading people astray.  We stand before Him alone.  Therefore, I would prefer to be sure about what I teach before I lead people into falsehoods about God's nature that go against the Bible. 

Do not lie to yourself, when you answer this question: ""Are you SURE about the doctrine of the Trinity, or are you just going along with something that was passed on to you from ... well ... someone, somewhere?""  Even if you have strong convictions about it, I would dare say that puts you in the vast minority.  I've heard seminary professors say that "To try to understand the Trinity is to loose ones mind, but to try to deny the trinity is to loose ones soul."  ... then a chuckle and a laugh ... lulling everyone into the slight of hand stupification of just agreeing to what nobody could possibly understand. The part that concerns me is that they are regurgitating something that they cannot apprehend nor understand and yet they put the full weight of salvation upon agreeing to what doesn't even make sense, not even to themselves.  That is just confusion, and I think you were the one that recently said, "God is not the author of confusion."

Contrast the professor's statement excusing the incomprehensible nature of his "orthodox theology" with what the Lord said: John 3 """3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that which we know, and bear witness of that which we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 3:12 If I told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you heavenly things? """

Is Jesus saying it is "okay" simply to be a teacher and not know what you are talking about, or that a teacher should know what they are talking about and having only taught what they have seen for themselves?

I'll tell you plain and simple: saying a defense like "I didn't understand it, God, so I just told people that it was true and told them that nobody could understand it either" will be a poor excuse for spreading any such gross slander.

And so I will tell you what I KNOW, and I will speak only of what I have seen.  I will not ask you to believe me because I say it, but because the Bible says it and the Lord has revealed it by the Spirit.  Yet you will read it and think "nobody could know.  he is guessing like the rest of us."  And you will go back into the cave of assumed-ignorance and keep repeating the lie ... but the time is over for me to remain silent about this corrupt teaching that makes Jesus, John, Peter and Paul out to be liars.

The Trinity is not a true doctrine.  It is a late-coming heresy and nothing more. 

I am not taking a guess, nor am I forwarding an idea that I picked up from someone else.  I am telling you what I KNOW and what I have SEEN for myself, after many years of pondering, learning, meditating, praying, asking and reading all while sitting at the feet of Jesus in emptiness and humility ... a blank slate upon which He could draw a picture of how things really are ... and all of this years before I have ever heard of Timothy.

The Holy Spirit is NOT a third "person" of God. 
Rather, Jesus is God, and the Father is God.  The Spirit is of the Lord Jesus and of the Father ... never is it something other than Jesus.

Your trinity dogma calls Jesus a liar, for it is written that the Lord referenced Himself as the Comforter:
John 14:16,18, 20, 23, 26
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter [ = parakletos], that he may be with you for ever, I will not leave you desolate: I come unto you. In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. But the Comforter, [even] the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.

Your trinity dogma calls John a liar, who identified Jesus Christ as the Comforter:
1 John 2:1 ""My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate [ = parakletos] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous...""

Your trinity dogma calls Peter a liar, who identified the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of Christ:
1 Peter 1:11 ""...searching what [time] or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did point unto, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that should follow them.""

Your trinity dogma calls Paul a liar, when he routinely calls the Spirits work as accomplished by Jesus Christ:
Phil 1: 11 - ""... being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are through Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.""  (I could go on and on about Paul, but if one example does not suffice, I doubt three would help.)

Notice that in two tries, [lady] was asked to show where scripture differs than the Letters, and she failed to show one verse. WOW, NOT ONE VERSE!  But, in a matter of 30 minutes, I showed how nearly every New Testament contributor (except for Luke, James, Matthew and Jude) expressly makes her (and your) doctrine completely unreliable.  Maybe it was 40 minutes ... but spicing it up with highlighting kept me off pace.  If you give me another hour I could probably get Luke to show the same, and maybe Matthew too.  Jude, well I'm not too sure about that fella, nor James.  The fact remains that if you hold to the trinity, than you might as well delete nine-tenths of the New Testament as being false as written by those who were false.  Well, either that or you have to ditch the dogma ... 

See how powerful comparing doctrine to scripture can be?  [sir], you and [lady] should give it a try sometime (I'm being sarcastic, which has some "sting" but only because I love you and want you to live up to your full potential and quit taking the easy road.)

So, you might be wondering if there is a viewpoint that would hold up to scriptural comparisons, now that I have dismantled the trinity.  Well, like I said: I will speak about what I KNOW and what I have SEEN, though once you see, it takes a while before you feel happy about the words you choose to describe it.  Maybe I should start with that, or at least for the sake of discussing the Letters, give a bit of a backdrop.

When I was 14, it was the only time I ever heard the voice of the Lord (except a couple of weeks ago, but lets keep this simple.)  That story of me at 14 is here, and here.  Read it if you want.  Audibly I heard four words ... it still is the loudest thing I have ever heard.

I distinctly remember a time from 15-18 that I had sermons going off in my head for hours at a time.  I thought I was being called to be a preacher.  The sermons were almost musical, and would go from beginning to end ... completely coherent and profound.  They were like poetry but deep and unsearchable, yet always like Paul's writing or what I read in the Gospels that Jesus taught.  This confounded me for years afterward, at least until I found several brothers that confided the same experience in their years as a youth.  I now see that I was being fed in my Spirit many truths ... some that I can recall, but many more that will lay latent until I "need" to recall them and do so by the Spirit.

For whatever reason, those things ended at some point ... the sermons quit coming at me, and my thoughts would often turn to some of the most difficult topics in the Bible.  I would "chew" on this and that for hours, days, months and even years.  It was at this point (early 20's) that I began to see God, Jesus, and the Spirit for Whom and What they were.  But still I could not tell anyone, because these things were not shared with me as words or sentences, but only thoughts and I resigned that words would fail (something that might tend to say even to this day.)

Late 20s I met Brent.  Brent Hurst, a SBC janitor / carpenter in Richardson.  We met on delphiforums.com and weren't instant friends.  Actually, i think we might have bumped heads at first, because I thought he was blowing hot air.  But, he agreed with what I was saying, and I found that I was in agreement with him ... even though I was not used to seeing someone speak the way he did.  He would say things one way, and if it was taken wrong, he could say it another way.  If that did not compute, he could say it a thousand other ways.  He appreciated the same thing in me.  We began to recognize that we were both able to put thoughts to words ... and use a litte (hard to believe?) or alot of words ... because we were both describing something that we had seen for ourselves.  It was not abstract notions trying to reflect the intelligible concepts about God.  Rather it was a reporting or witnessing to what was beheld in meditation and prayer over many many years.  Remarkably, we had many of the same ideas, and where we may have differed, we came to agreement quickly.  Sometimes, with me persuading him and sometimes, with Brent persuading me.  It was iron sharpening iron.  Brent remains one of the most satisfying relationships that I have ever had with any Christian brother, though we haven't spoken but a couple of paragraphs or a few short calls to each other in the last 3 years or so.

One of the things that Brent and I enjoyed trying to describe is the nature God.  We would play typical male one-ups-manship games and eventually got to where we started to like the way we were putting it all to words.  I didn't think it would ever happen, but suddenly ... I was satisfied (somewhat) with meger descriptions of what I was seeing in my minds-eye.  I was describing and Brent was describing ... well ... God ... or at least the aspects of our revelations about God to our own satisfaction. 

I felt like I really understood the fulfillment of this verse:
Matthew 13:52 (The Message) - ""He said, "Then you see how every student well-trained in God's kingdom is like the owner of a general store who can put his hands on anything you need, old or new, exactly when you need it." ""

I gave up on delphi .. .and it got stale with me.  Same people; same conversations ... dwindling attendence with cliques and bullys run amok.  I quit it.  Before I quit delphiforums, I copied and pasted some of my articles about God into tblog.com site.  Before I knew it, I was blogging before blogging was cool.  This was in 2004 or so.  Then, when I felt "if-y" about tblog.com going under, I picked a domain, uploaded some software and hosted my own blog - Gracehead.com.  I drug some of those same articles from tblog.com that came from delphiforums.com over to gracehead.com ... so basically, even though some of these articles say they were created in 2005, they are actually from 2001-2003 or so. 

Here are some highlights carried over from Delphiformus that has alot to do with God's ontological nature/being:

• Did the Son join Himself to and become part of the creation?

• Where have I erred?

• The "Giant Suck" ... not the "Big Bang."

and more recently:

• He is from above; we are from below.

• Dark Energy that confounds science is the Gospel's backdrop!

Now anyone can find fault in these articles.  Guess what ... So can I.  Some of the faults seem rather conspicuous as time has gone by (like I said, some of these are from about 2001) and I would say things a little different, knowing what I know now.  Nevertheless, they contain attempts to describe what I was seeing, and what I still see. 

I am confident in what I saw and what I perceive still, not because of just cocky huberous, but because I have been taught and retaught these things over and over by the Lord, Himself (again before I met Timothy ... I'm getting around to that) and because I have endevored many times to wipe all I know clean and ask the Lord to teach me straight from the top again ... all over.  Furthermore, what I see throughout the Bible confirms what I have seen in revelation.  I often read scripture not from the vantage that I have to parse it and reassemble it with known doctrine to fit like a puzzle, but as someone who sees the Author of scripture say in perfect words exactly the description of what I have seen.  It is satisfying for me to read the Bible, because so much of it fits ... I get it.  I see that Paul gets it, and Peter and especially John.  I see that Jesus taught then, what He still teaches to this day.  Indeed the Spirit lead to all Truth.  Amen!

I am simply describing "faith" without saying that word.

Enter Timothy.  Well, to keep a long story slightly less long than I have already made it ... Timothy gets it too.  Well, maybe he didn't at first when I met him, but he does now.  I've helped him to see many of the sublime truths in the Letters that he just didn't understand until he met me.  And to be fair, there is quite a few things that I needed to know that I had not yet considered until confronted with the Truth in the Letters.  I'm eternally grateful for Christ's ministry to me that is ongoing even through the Letters, along with all the grace through other direct and indirect methods that He has used in the past to bring me along.

Needless to say, we share alot of viewpoints about God, because like Brent ... Timothy sees what I see.  We have fun trying to describe it, and in many ways, my relationship with Timothy is alot like my relationship with Brent.  In many ways, it is better and more balanced than the relationship that I forged with Brent.  Still: Iron sharpening iron ... and it is awesome. 

Well, I haven't really described the Holy Spirit, have I?  Well, just check the links.  You can probably find mistakes in how I worded them, as can I ... but if you see with greater eyes that of which I am describing (instead of nit-picking the wording) then you will understand why I simply cannot UNSEE what I have seen.  It is burned in my conscious.  It isn't that I arrived at an understanding after fitting pieces together ... it was that I saw the whole vista .. like the box-lid of the puzzle ... and now all the peices make alot more since, because I have seen the gestalt. 

Furthermore, if you research the earliest church understanding of God, you will see that they happened to believe alot closer to me than the third century post-nicene church ... who came up with trinitarian ideas.  Binitarian, for example, is very close to what I believe, and it is the predicessor (by at least one-hundred years) to the late-coming doctrine of the trinity. 

I find comfort that I see with eyes of faith the interaction and arrivals of the identites of the Son and Father ... and that of the Holy Spirit.  I am comforted that I see the Author of scriptures invariably affirm the veiw that I was granted by the Spirit. It pops out on every page, and fills me with joy.  I am further comforted that I have not seen a single passage or verse contradict my viewpoint and that comes from no lack of looking for contradictions.

So, I started by asking you a question ... and I know I was hard on you.  I am not hard on most people, because I don't often deem very many people worthy of reproof and correction.  For most people, I would be wasting my breathe.  However, [sir], you seem to me to be fair and honest ... a man of integrity and with the capcity to see these things.  So I ask once more for effect: How many people have to say something is true to make it true even when the Bible says otherwise?  Would you go with what 90% believe even if it contradicts scripture?

PS. I know I didn't take on the circular reasoning that [lady] had concerning Moses, nor the self-defeating argument about Hebrews 1 ... but it is late and I'm going to bed ... ask me again sometime if you really want me to put together a more exhaustive rebuttal ... until then, trust me that (as far as I am concerned) the ammo is there but I am not sure that I'll ever have the opportunity get around to firing it off.

PPS.  Forgive all the poor grammer and whatnot.  I am too sleepy to proof read what I just wrote .. so, just skip any part that doesn't make sense.